Central Terminal September 1992 part 2
Here it is, Richard Gilbert’s 2nd installment
Buffalo Central Terminal September 1992 pt 2 of 2: Franczyk/Telesco Confrontation from Richard Gilbert on Vimeo.
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December 26th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess !! I havent even watched it yet ….
December 26th, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Man Dave sure gave to Telesco. I can’t believe that Telesco didn’t care about this great building. I heard if Telesco came back to Buffalo he could get arrested for someting unpaid with the building. I know that some of the CTRC volunteers would love to scream at him for what he did.
December 26th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
scream at him ? id rather beat him with a piece of broken marble till he remembered who he sold everything to.
Canig (sp?) mentions salt lake city and England, what fixtures wound up there ?
i would love to get rolling on reproducing the light fixtures.
December 27th, 2009 at 5:19 am
I tracked down the lights as much as I could through the local dealer Telesco sold them all to. They are all out of the area, the closest one is in Toronto at the Navarro Gallery on King St. It is not in the best shape but glass can easily be replaced. I believe the price tag last time I was there was $7000 and as of September, he still had it. It’d be a bargain if the exchange rate was better
2 – 7-footers are on a yacht that is based in south africa. 2 3-footers were sold through Christies auction house last year. 2 lobby sconces are/were for sale at a store in London last year, I had a friend stop in to check them out for me. Several others were sold to hollywood movie companies and can be seen in The Secret of My Success with Michael J Fox but we recently found out those were lost in a fire a few years ago.
December 27th, 2009 at 5:50 pm
David Franczyk is now my hero! I gotta shake that mans hand next time I see him and to anyone who called Telesco out on what he did to the building.
December 27th, 2009 at 6:18 pm
…just finished watching it and that is incredible to catch all that on film!
December 27th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
which ones were in “the secret of my success”? im guessing either the 27″ sconces from the main concourse or the slightly shorter versions that were in the train concourse. Anyone that wonders what i mean by that, the train concourse sconces are the framed glass section of the 27″ units, but dont have the vertical section below it, and their bases are angled instead of flat.
Im incredibly curious about the trolley lobby chandelier, trolley lobby wall sconces, bathroom wall sconces, restaurant wall sconces, and train concourse chandelier,
i hink Marty said we have one small wall sconce that might have went in the bathrooms someplace, and i assume the “lobby sconces” you mentioned are the ones Marty showed me pics of that the guys @ Gomack are working on
December 27th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Oh yea, Sara, when you get a chance can i get the measurements for the 27″ sconces again, along w/ the measurements for the 7 footers ?
Lowrollerchevy@aol.com
December 27th, 2009 at 7:56 pm
I spoke with David at Mike Miller’s funeral, Scott Field was with him. David told me how he and Telesco got into it, and how Telesco physically threw him out of the building, grabbing his arm and telling him ‘get out, you’re on private property’. David’s the one guy in the city of Buffalo government that has always stood up for the terminal, through good and bad, and probably one of the best friends the terminal has had over the years. I have the highest respect for him. As for Telesco, he truly was, in David’s words, ‘The Great Satan’ for what he did to the terminal! (What goes around will someday eventually come around, for Telesco, that is!)
December 27th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Yea I have a lot of respect for Dave as well. Anyone who can tell off Telesco on how he destroyed the building is a cool guy in my book.
FIGHT THE POWER DAVE!
December 27th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Uhhh, Ozzy and Nick, if Telesco ever came back to Buffalo I think there are a lot of us here that would like to see him drawn and quartered! Crucifying him publicly is much too humane!
December 27th, 2009 at 8:24 pm
He’s wearing a “Raiders” jacket, how apt.
This is him now if you are curious:
http://www.telescoassociates.com/telesco_team.html
Here it lists his awards as including “Charter Class of Leadership Buffalo” and a
“Historic Preservation award”:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-telesco/a/381/60
Wonder if the folks in South Beach care that he is a 2-bit vandal.
December 27th, 2009 at 9:31 pm
Interestingly, this profile of Telesco also brags that he “Owned the New York Central Railroad Terminal in Buffalo NY, a 400,000 sq. ft. National Historical Landmark.” It doesn’t mention that he desecrated that landmark:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/thomas-telesco/a/381/60
December 28th, 2009 at 2:43 am
Like the John Conlee song ‘Rose Colored Glasses’ says, ‘they only see the beauty, but they hide all the truth’. That is definitely something to be ashamed of!
December 28th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
I watched it and it is pretty sickening to me. And then you go to his website where it looks like he is pretty successful down in the miami area. He is probably making a pretty penny. Not sure if he checks this site or not, but it looks to me that he could make a nice donation to the CTRC for their efforts. It still amazes me how people get away with things like this in Buffalo like Telesco did.
December 28th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
I have not seen the Secret of my Success but I was told the 7″ lights were in it.
I will send the dimensions soon… I am not on my desktop computer often in the winter because it is too cold in my basement
Keep reminding me.
The restaurant sconces were not very decorative, I think I have a photo of one actually, I’ll look. No clue on the trolley lobby lights. As Nick mentioned, we have one light, I forget where it came from – Ben might remember – which we are assuming was from the waiting room bathroom area.
I think the one for sale in Toronto was a train concourse version.
December 28th, 2009 at 7:22 pm
He never did (and probably still doesn’t) care about Central Terminal. To him it was merely a tax write-off and a source of collectibles to make a quick buck off of. He did not have a vested interest in the Buffalo area’s history, and the sites that gave Buffalo its character. He simply saw ownership of the terminal as a convenient means of increasing his own wealth, while pillaging it and letting it fall apart. It’ll be a very cold day in Hell before the CTRC sees even a penny coming from him! (Unless, of course, he did it only for the tax deduction.)
December 28th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
BTW Sara, do you know offhand, or could you find out just how many of the lights used in the film were lost in the fire? My guess is that none of them were salvageable, and they were all completely destroyed. Bummer!
December 28th, 2009 at 8:55 pm
well why did the City of Buffalo auction it off, i think it was a few times they did that correct? You had to know this was going to happen eventually but at the same time i don’t think the city had a choice at that time to auction off the Terminal…
December 29th, 2009 at 3:48 am
where the 7 inch sconce came from should be easy, the womens room and mens room sconces were both triangular, but im pretty sure the mens room ones are taller.
My pic of the mens room shows “sconce marks” that are taller then they are wide, and im pretty sure the womens room lights where much closer to equal height and width
December 29th, 2009 at 4:31 am
found “the secret of my success” on the web, sometimes i love peoples lack of respect for copyright laws
of course its gonna take all night to load fully, but oh well. I’ll report if i find anything or not
December 29th, 2009 at 3:58 pm
I have no idea how many lights were sold to hollywood, or how many they had and lost in the fire. I don’t know who would know that info either, sorry.
December 29th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
Just finished watching “The secret of my success” and i didn’t see anything that appears to be from the terminal. In fact theres really no scenes in the movie that are both well decorated AND used often.
The high end restaurant is only used in one scene as is probably a rental, and the same goes for the estate.
The restaraunt is lit with shorty antique street lights and various hanging lights, the estate is lit with hanging chandaliers, vase style table lamps, and various wall sconces that are obviously designed to mount to a standard electrical box, just like the lights on either side of your garage door.
the rest of the movie is crappy 80’s office decor, a slum apartment, various real locations around nyc.
Sorry folks, didn’t gain any new details about our missing stuff from this movie .
December 29th, 2009 at 11:57 pm
According to the FAQ section of this site: “Our lights have also appeared in the movies “The Hardway”, “For Love or Money”, and “Bullets Over Broadway”.” Unfortunately those movies are terrible as I recall but they may provide you with leads if you can stomach 6+ hours of 1980s dreck.
December 30th, 2009 at 12:05 am
I was curious and found this on youtube, 13 seconds in to this trailer you will see what looks lamps from the terminal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1alCEbBPQQ
December 30th, 2009 at 1:53 am
Are those the 6′ ones? they seems smaller.
December 30th, 2009 at 1:55 am
Here’s a pic from that clip…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/Untitled.jpg
December 30th, 2009 at 2:00 am
Still curious, so here’s more I believe, starting 1:45 in to this section of “For Love or Money”:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABWNUswLtwE&feature=related
I skimmed through the whole movie (it is fast on the internet) and this is all I found.
December 30th, 2009 at 2:47 am
Here’s some pics from that clip…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/01-2.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/02.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/03.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/04.jpg
December 30th, 2009 at 3:42 am
4:37 in to this section of “The Hard Way” (the only scenes with the lamps in this awful movie):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7EO9DoDrGY&feature=related
December 30th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Perhaps the person who told me confused one Michael J Fox movie for another, and the Secret of My Success doesn’t have them – sorry you had to suffer through that hahah. But good detective work guys!
I don’t believe there were 6′ lights, only 3′ and 7′, the shot just appears to have cut off the tops of them.
December 30th, 2009 at 4:34 pm
Wait are ALL these movies with Michael J Fox?!?
December 30th, 2009 at 4:50 pm
“Bullets over Broadway” doesn’t have Michael J. Fox, I have never seen it but it might actually be good, Woody Allen directed it and it won an Oscar. I couldn’t find it on the net other than a trailer but it might actually be worth renting. All these movies are from the 1992-4 time period, I wonder if anyone has seen the lamps in anything newer.
I’ll bet you guys have tried coaxing them into giving the lamps back (in exchange for good pub or the withholding of bad pub) so I won’t bother asking. The Michael J Fox films are both NBC Universal, and the Woody Allen film is Mirimax, which is Disney.
December 30th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Here’s some pics from “The Hard Way”…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/139-1.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/140.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/141.jpg
December 31st, 2009 at 12:07 am
The secret of my success isnt that bad, at least its got an original plot line.
One thing i am wondering though is if the 7′ lights were / are owned by a PRODUCTION company or a PROP company. The credits to any of those movies might be ANOTHER good place to look for information.
maybe if someone wants to look at what companies produced all of the movies the lights are in, and trace back which production companies are related to which that might help also.
and the small lights are 27″ and the big ones, based on my measurements from the terminal, are right about 7′
December 31st, 2009 at 12:58 am
Here’s some pics from “The Hard Way”
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/139.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/141.jpg
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/140.jpg
December 31st, 2009 at 3:36 am
Are these:
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/02.jpg
one of these?:
http://buffalocentralterminal.org/pics/album/72157605312119556/photo/2533410232/the-1970s-weterminal09.html
The ones in the film somehow look thinner.
December 31st, 2009 at 3:57 am
I heard a rumor that someone had saved the lights from the train concourse that was dismantled. It would only make sense too that you wouldn’t destroy priceless lights or even the chalkboard so I’m betting that someone had to have saved them. The square lights from the train concourse are the same that outlined the concourse. If we could look into this rumor we could easily reproduce the 18 we would need for the concourse.
The lights from the train concourse… http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/Untitled-1.jpg
The lights from the main concourse… http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/463.jpg
December 31st, 2009 at 3:50 pm
I don’t think there is much point in tracking down the production companies, or asking for them to be returned, since they burned up….
When the train concourse was severed from the rest of the building, those fixtures were sold as well. That is how one of them ended up in Toronto.
December 31st, 2009 at 4:16 pm
So they were sold by Fedele? right? I overheard Mark talking to some rail buff about having one of those fixtures but maybe I was mistaken. I even heard a rumor that some guys who were allowed to play hockey in the waiting room were given a light fixture by the owner and it was one of the 7′ from the concourse but that of course turned out to be false.
December 31st, 2009 at 8:58 pm
Wow, thanks for the train concourse and main concourse photos, Mr. Vester: Those are the first I had seen of those. Close up, too, the main concourse ones seem to have been taken from a scaffold.
December 31st, 2009 at 10:10 pm
No it wasn’t on a scaffold as far as I now, just zoomed into the lights on the concourse. I believe I got that one from the CTRC’s facebook page. lol
January 1st, 2010 at 2:24 am
Nick I think I found a photo of what kind of light use to be in the trolley lobby. Or at least something similar. The light they used in the train concourse just before the bridge over the tracks right up in the ceiling before the cinder block wall. The photo I have isn’t the best but I think there the same. Hopefully you haven’t made this obvious assumption by now. lol
Here’s the outline of the light in the trolley lobby…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/DSCN5837.jpg
And here’s what light may have been there…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/01-3.jpg
January 1st, 2010 at 4:15 pm
I wonder if the story of the lamps “burning up” isn’t a throwaway excuse like “the dog ate my homework”. I’ll bet they were borrowed from the “owners” on the condition that no one ever know their identity. I have heard stories of people watching films and jumping up and screaming when seeing pieces of art that they grew up with in their homes but were looted during WWII. Ms. Etten has mentioned here that art dealers are “dodgy” about telling where the lamps ended up (they would lose business if their customers were hounded to give back their decorations). I’ll bet the same phenomenon would go on with these “property masters”: if they talk it will be harder for them to do their jobs. BTW I am poking around in films by the same art directors/ property masters or whatever their titles are to see if I can’t come across more recent views of the lamps.
January 1st, 2010 at 4:15 pm
Nate, when Fedele left he took pics of everything still intact. Fedele would NOT have given away such a major piece of the terminal to anyone.
all the lights came up missing AFTER Fedele left the building.
one interesting thing i HAVE noticed that Fedele did ….he turned the buffalo statue around so it faced the exit lobby, lol
January 1st, 2010 at 5:25 pm
Sorry guys but Fedele was responsible for selling the lights from the train concourse when it was severed. I talked to people who bought them directly from him. I don’t blame him either, why leave these fixtures in a building that was going to be completely open to the elements and thieves? He left everything in the concourse intact, as we know.
The hollywood fire, while I don’t know which production company it was (I want to say Paramount), is very well known. I don’t think it’s a “dog ate my homework” excuse…they were stored with the rest of the companies props which all went up in flames. Investigate if you want, I just think it will be fruitless.
January 1st, 2010 at 7:02 pm
Yeah, I see no point in repeating the legwork you guys have already done (I found the fire in about 3 seconds on the net, it was at Universal last June). It probably is everyone’s dream that one or more of them will be found forgotten in some warehouse somewhere. I think the only practical alternative for the big lamps is Nick’s idea of just crafting new ones. I am a bit surprised that the square lights from the concourses are in demand for collectors, I don’t know where you would put those in your house.
January 2nd, 2010 at 6:39 pm
BTW I just received my February 2010 issue of “Trains” magazine and on page 62 there is a photo of BCT taken in December 2007 during a snowstorm. The caption says the building looks “so bleak, yet so proud.”
January 3rd, 2010 at 1:09 am
The November 2008 issue of Trains Magazine also featured a short story and a photo of the building…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/scan0001-1.jpg
…I can’t wait to go get that new issue now!
January 3rd, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Ill be looking at that issue at Tops to come in soon, can’t wait to see it!
January 4th, 2010 at 9:26 pm
Nate, check out the lights i posted in the comments for the first video (the ones whos future location i wouldnt reveal) , and compare them to the train concourse chandalier you posted above
eerie similarity wouldn’t you say ?
now i have to figure out something else to replace those 4 light fixtures i was planning, ugh. i intended them to be original …. that intention has failed.
January 4th, 2010 at 10:39 pm
I think I remember from the April 1989 document salvage visit with the WNYRHS seeing the bison facing the front exit, and away from the train concourse. I’m still looking for my pictures from that time, haven’t found them yet. I had pictures of some of the lights too, some on 35mm, some on 110. I never dreamed back then that what happened would happen! I’m sure many of us didn’t. Too bad Warren Buffett couldn’t have stepped in at the last minute and outbid Telesco. And then told the powers that be in the city of Buffalo at the time how things were going to be. 100% per assessed value was not only outrageous, it should have been made unconstitutional! Reminds me of the ‘occupancy tax’ that was passed in the late 1970’s, and later rescinded. Nick, if any high tech method of designing another light fixture fails, if you know any young kids that still play with Spirograph sets anymore, the Spirograph might hold the key to another design. Just thought I’d throw that in!
January 5th, 2010 at 1:06 am
Nick – now that I think about it I believe I found a piece of glass from one of the chandeliers from the main concourse! I measured about perhaps 2′ long and had a slight taper to it. Along with being frosted which is what the originals were, along with most interior glass in the building. lol. I’m almost certain that it had to be from a light fixture in the main concourse.
Sorry to steal you photo Nick but I believe this is the piece of glass I’m talking about…
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/chand3d.jpg
January 5th, 2010 at 1:20 am
my photos can be stolen for the good of the terminal, i dont mind.
Nate, if the piece you speak of IS from the chand, it should be approx 31 tall, 15 wide at the top, and 8 wide at the bottom,
January 5th, 2010 at 2:03 am
Yea that seems about right to me.
January 8th, 2010 at 11:21 pm
And here is that photo from this month’s Trains Magazine in stores now!
http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/vv223/terminalfan/033-1.jpg
January 10th, 2010 at 12:59 am
anyone know what the deal is w/ the gift shop ceiling? drop ceiling ? drywall ?
January 10th, 2010 at 1:08 pm
Like when is it going to be done? or started for that matter?
January 10th, 2010 at 10:13 pm
Nate, from what i heard the Ticket Agents office is becoming the new gift shop, so therefor its already started.
i hope im not mistaken
January 11th, 2010 at 10:09 am
I’ve heard that too, that doesn’t mean it will happen. Frank was plastering up the wall and Walt needed to run some new electrical for a few nice outlets. But yea that is a much better location. Right of the concourse, no steps to trip on, larger room, no leaks, glass display windows, and a room off to the side for storage.
January 18th, 2010 at 2:01 am
its a picture of a picture, but oh well. Marty had a pic of the original mez railings at the terminal on sat, and it showed glorious detail of the obolisks, requiring me to modify my obolisk prints a bunch. I dont carry a scanner in my pocket, so digital pics it had to be.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/hotrodkid/bct/bct%20projects/PICT0236.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/hotrodkid/bct/bct%20projects/PICT0235.jpg
look how thick the scroll work on the railing is!
January 19th, 2010 at 3:15 pm
Does anyone have any idea how much money Telesco and Fedele made from all the items they sold?
January 19th, 2010 at 11:04 pm
I heard from some people that Telesco made about 4 million dollars from all of the stuff he sold from the building. I never how much Fedele made from the lights he sold from the train concourse. It probably wasn’t much because he lost the building. I also heard he tried to sell some of the office furniture to pay off the taxes he owed.
January 20th, 2010 at 12:52 am
I would say $4 million is WAY too high. Knowing how much the lights were being resold for, and the fact that the resellers want to make a profit too, there is no way he made $4 mil.
All the office furniture was offered for sale at some point in the 80s, our old president Russell Pawlak remembered going to the building and buying some file cabinets.
January 20th, 2010 at 5:31 am
its been said that stripping and scrapping the building netted more like 1 – 1.25 million, which is probably much more correct.
January 20th, 2010 at 10:24 am
It’s amazing he couldn’t be prosecuted for defacing a historical landmark. If anyone here knows anything about web optimization, we should set things up so that when someone Googles Thomas Telesco, the info we have about him here comes up in the top 10 searches.
January 20th, 2010 at 10:41 am
Thanks for the information. I thought it was a little high too but I just siad what I heard.
January 20th, 2010 at 4:47 pm
Just as a follow up to those great videos that were posted where Telesco is confronted…
Did the meeting with the judge ever take place and what happened?
January 20th, 2010 at 9:45 pm
Great video? What has changed since the video was shot? Not much. Just alot of talk about things in the works. Do the math, the last guy said stuff is in the works. Well that was 1992 it’s 2010 and we hear the same stuff. I would bet in another 18 years we are going to hear the same. Thats if the building doesn’t fall down before.
January 20th, 2010 at 11:11 pm
Alot of talk ? why dont you swing by on a work day and tell all us volounteers in person that what were doing is all talk. Ill personally hand you a shovel so you can “talk” too.
Personally, my talking includes the following: Cad files for all the missing main concourse light fixtures, cad files for the Mezzanine railing obolisks, (all of which i will be helping to fabricate when the time comes) I was one of 3 people who helped dig out the Trolley Lobby stairs. I was one of a group of people that got the light well 80% cleaned up.
My FIRST DAY at the terminal i was digging through the rubble from the Curtiss St decorative ceiling that CTRC tore down before it fell down, and i did that a few more times, and in the end i was one of 4 or 5 people that was down there clearing the sidewalks / curbs of rubble so that it could all be bulldozed out of the way by Brian & Brian
I did my small part in helping set up the shop, ive helped setup / staff / clean up events.
the list goes on…. Heck, i even made some phone calls and got ahold of Pamela Messmore, grand daughter of the man who built the plaster buffalo statue, to see if she knew about the existence of the original molds which we KNOW existed all the way up to 1997.
I followed that up with another phone call to someone else, and got $12,000 worth of “supplies” pledged to us free of charge, as long as we come get them.
We, the volunteers of CTRC, are much more then just talk. Telesco left the building in 97, and with him went all the hot air and smoke screens.
I halfheartedly apologize if the progress we make is not fast enough to make you happy. This Saturday i will be at the building doing what i do, feel free to stop by and deliver you master plan on how we can do this project in a way YOU find to be more timely.
January 21st, 2010 at 12:50 pm
Please don’t feed the trolls, or we will have to close the comments to keep things civil.
January 23rd, 2010 at 7:15 pm
(Agreed, Derek!) I had surgery in my right eye a couple of days ago, and the doctor has given me a 10 pound lifting restriction. I hope to be back up to rejoin the gang once the restriction is lifted, and hopefully the weather cooperates. I hope to get the left eye done soon after the right one heals up. The unbalance is driving me nuts! I must say though that it’s the first time since I was 7 or 8 years old I’ve been able to see this clearly with that eye without glasses! Unbelievable! I had a cataract that made looking at things appear like they were in a fog. They blew the cataract out and replaced the lens with an implant that compensates for my nearsightedness. The day after the surgery, they told me I was 20/25 without correction in that eye and it would get better when healed! I’ll probably be in touch with Hank via email (once I get caught up with those) to find out which projects are on the hot list for the spring. I’ll try to remember to bring up the screws for the door and window projects that still need them. (I take it all 4 of the outer trims were found for the big window frame?)