Hope everyone enjoyed this year’s Oktoberfest! Here are some photos from the event:
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What a surreal experience! My first ever (But definitely not the last!) evening visit to the terminal. Walking around the concourse and giving the place a good looking over, I imagined what it may have been like during WWII. Even though we were at war with Germany then, I could almost hear the big band sounds of the swing era filling the concourse, old friends meeting again, new friends being made, everyone having a wonderful time. Something no one can ever take away from BCT.
Before leaving I stood next to my car and admired the lights and lighted clocks on top of the tower for almost a half hour!
This place really needs to come back to life, full time, in a big way!
Paul you are very right. Lets just pray the city gives us alot of money towards this place.
It was an awesome event and I hope they have an even bigger crowd next year. The Band was great, I really hope they are brought back next year also. It was nice walking around and seeing the terminal, such a huge place like that I wish someone had the money to rehab the building and make it into a giant office building/exhibition space and maybe even convince amtrak to exit depew and bring service back to the building.
If we at the CTRC are the biggest fan club for the terminal, I certainly hope the membership will continue to grow. We can’t depend only on the city of Buffalo, the county of Erie, the state of NY or even the federal government for anything in these tough economic times. If that bailout package had passed today, I wonder how much federal funding we would have lost, and I still wonder, especially when the new administration, whichever one it may be, comes into office. Being able to now accept donations through PayPal makes it especially nice. Not many of us knew about that until Derek announced it in his last post.
The strength is with those of us who have enjoyed the terminal in the past, and wish to continue enjoying it in the future. Even those living far away from here, that have definitely shown their support for us and our cause. Until they get a chance to come up here and see the place in person, Accepting donations through PayPal offers a great way for them to help us out. I’m sure the CTRC budget is staggering, even for just one event. Then there’s fixed expenses, taxes, utilities, insurance, security, hazmat removal, etc.. It never ends. We appreciate all the help we can get. I would like to extend thanks to those who have helped us, and will continue to do so in the future.
I would to to see Amtrak back in this station. The only way for that to happen is make an arch way over pass accross the belt line aquire the Passenger Concourse. I would hope sometime the CTRC would aquire them someday. Railway Express building would be another story though.
I think we would all like to see Amtrak back there, and also the Buffalo subway trains too, as well as Via rail from Canada. Maybe RDC shuttles to and from BFX- Exchange St., BUF- Depew., and Niagara Falls. For BCT to be the rail hub for the entire area. A destination as well as a pass-through point.
I still like the idea (maybe a crazy one) about a lift type bridge, the same size as the original, weather sealed on both ends, like car windows, and when raised would lift panaramic windows below the deck on both ends so the train passing under on the belt line could be viewed from both the terminal and train concourse. (If it’s put in, it might be the only one of its type in the world.) The ends of the bridge would also be closed when raised with type of the design I have in mind, to keep out the elements. When lowered it would rest on adjustable shock absorbing pads, and the deck could be adjusted on both ends to be perfectly lined up with the terminal and train concourse floors. In place of the train board, a large video and information display would fill that spot.
And public WiFi internet in all open areas of the terminal. And some ideas for a newly renovated waiting room that would include video/ information displays and “workstation” type areas where passengers with laptops could sit in comfort, plug their AC adapters in, and connect wirelessly to the internet with their laptops, while waiting for their train to arrive. Such an area could also be set up in the train concourse too. (Sounds like a plan, or a dream?)
The normal practice to increase the dimensions for taller cars is to undercut the track surface and lower the tracks, which is cheaper than rebuilding every bridge. Such a process has been used throughout the US- for example, the Hoosac Tunnel was lowered in this manner. I assume that the only reason Conrail didn’t lower the Belt is because BCT was not in use at the time and it was cheaper to knock down the bridge. Lowering the tracks would mean that the bridge could be rebuilt as original without any of the complicated (or aesthetically odd) contraptions that are being mentioned.
True, but how receptive would CSX be to the idea? Lowering the belt line right of way was my first thought. I’m all for that, and if it would not pose any problem for CSX to lower the right of way, if there would not be any safety issues, flood concerns, etc.. That would be the more sensible approach. The lift bridge idea was only a possible alternative. And it wouldn’t be necessary to raise the entire span, only the section directly above the belt line tracks, whatever minimal length was absolutely necessary, because of weight concerns. I’d rather see the bridge put back just the way it was, and the belt line lowered. If the CTRC doesn’t have the original blueprints, then the preservation dept at “WASA/ Studio A” might still have them archived. Question is, how much would they charge us for a copy?
As far as the Railway Express building goes, I have been reading that Amtrak does not have adequate service facilities for their passenger cars, and many of their cars are not in service because of that. If renovated, how much trouble would it be for Amtrak to install a siding or two into there and convert that complex into a state-of-the-art rail passenger car service shop? Buffalo would make a great regional hub for servicing part of the Amtrak fleet currently sidelined awaiting repairs. With a little TLC, BCT would be the perfect location for just such a venture!
Another alternative use would be for light manufacturing, or skilled trades shops, tool & die, CNC machining, plastic molding, welding, etc..
After talking to some train guys lowering the belt line does not seem to be an option. Amtrak or CSX would need a extra engine for every percent increase on the line.
The ruling grade would depend on how much track was lowered. Obviously, just putting in a short sag under the bridge would be impassible. I would guess that if .5 of a mile or so was lowered the ruling grade should not be excessive and would not require additional locomotives. The issue would come down to money- more lowering requires more excavation and more track rebuilding. CSX would be more likely to agree to lower the tracks if they weren’t required to contribute much (or any) of its cost. In addition, the fact that the damage was done by a predecessor company might encourage them to be more cooperative for PR reasons. I just do not see them agreeing to a sort of lift bridge that would require track signaling for trains and waiting while pedestrians exit the center span. Then again, perhaps rerouting the Belt connection a bit to the west instead of under the station would be more practical.
Does anyone know what the minimum clearance requirement is for the tallest double stack freightcars? From the top of the rails to the top of the freightcar + bridge clearance distance? Is that defined by FRA regulations? By how many inches or centimeters was the original bridge too low? Quite a bit, I suspect, that’s why Conrail removed it. The alternative would have been to lower about 1/4 mile of track to minimize the grade impact. Quite expensive. I don’t know why they would need an extra locomotive, since it’s a low speed limit line where it passes through, unless it’s for the additional dynamic braking or as a rear helper. The new GE’s, it seems wouldn’t notice much of a load change at all. The extra fuel consumption would be negligible.
Double stack cars are 20′ 3″ above the rail. My understanding is that 20′ 9″ is what is preferred as a minimum clearance for bridges under which double stack cars will pass. Here is a discussion of a clearance improvement project:
http://www.marshall.edu/cber/research/TRP99-24_FR.pdf
According to the article, it will cost around $634,000 to lower two tracks under a bridge in Ohio (I believe that this project on the NS is underway right now).
So, ideally at least a 21 foot clearance is what is needed. Maybe someone could tell us what the clearance on the original bridge was, and if we get lucky, maybe federal funding might become available to finance a percentage of this project, if we can convince CSX to at least look into it. Calculating the % grade change over, say the distance from the Broadway overpass to the main line connection for the additional feet of bridge clearance needed, there would not be that much of a change for a gradual drop from overpass to terminal, and rise from terminal to main line connection. It would almost be unnoticeable. Even with a 100+ car long fully loaded freight train, two GE C-40′s should be able to handle that without additional help. Amtrak shouldn’t have a problem either.
The formula for computing 1% grade is 52.8 feet rise or drop per mile, or 10m rise or drop per km. For 1/4 mile between the Broadway overpass and terminal, if they only needed to lower the belt line about 6 feet for ample bridge clearance, that would translate to less than a 0.5% grade change (down), and 0.5% back up in 1/4 mile from the terminal to the main line connection. Maybe the existing clearance is such that they don’t even need to lower the right of way that much, meaning even less % grade change. It all depends on what the original bridge clearance was. We’re looking for the difference between that and 21 feet (about 6.5m).
Sorry I missed the event….too many other things going on. I’d like to go next year. I haven’t been to the terminal in a few years so I’m interested to see the progress. I like the idea of turning the terminal back into a transit point. Put the bus station in there too.
Hey Ernie, on Saturday the 11th, from 3pm to 11pm we are having a very big show there, Mobility Across the Ages. I’m planning on being there! Why don’t you c’mon up too? It will be a big chance for all to offer input on the future of Central Terminal, and the transportation industry in Western New York in general. You could promote your ideas there, to those soliciting them.
I’d like to see a bus station there too, along with Amtrak resuming passenger train service, a connection to the Buffalo subway system, one or more taxicab providers, a car rental agency, one or two express bank offices, a few ATM’s, a multi provider cell phone/ wireless accessory shop, a self-serve post office, coffee and donut, pizza and sub, bakery, and ice cream shops, a mini food court, Motor Vehicles satellite office, etc.. And public WiFi internet everywhere in the terminal.
(Somebody else jump in if I missed something here that they want to see.)
Maybe also an area somewhere in the concourse where unknown local entertainers can come and do ‘jam sessions’ in the hopes of being discovered by record label producers, talent scouts, etc.. Someone (maybe their crews) could record videos on these ‘jam sessions’ for viewing later at a video kiosk in the concourse or waiting room.
I’d still like to see a community college or business school go into the baggage building too. And a radio and television broadcast facility in the tower and upper office floors. And as I said earlier, Amtrak setting up a rail passenger car service shop in the Railway Express building, and making Buffalo a major Amtrak hub. All this could be “under one roof’, so to speak, or at least in the same complex.
How’s that for reuse?